Comments on: The Old Man and the Sea: Papa’s Cruciform Writing http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-old-man-and-the-sea-papas-cruciform-writing Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:11:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: matt c http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-old-man-and-the-sea-papas-cruciform-writing/comment-page-1#comment-3853 matt c Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:15:34 +0000 http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=762#comment-3853 The last three nights I've been rereading "The Old Man and the Sea" before bed; I'd been meaning to for a while. Last night as I was reading the last third my mind kept going to the thoughts in your post. I have no doubt that to some extent Hemingway meant for Santiago to be a Christ type, regardless of what he said. What struck me as I was turning the last page of the book was what this said about Hemingway's view of Christ: Christ is a failure. Santiago, through a mixture of pride and desperation, goes too far and suffers three days in the ocean. Through a long, painful ordeal he captures the fish, which represents to Santiago salvation from hunger and want. However, Santiago fails to bring salvation back to the land of the living. He returns to where he came from, blooded and broken, with nothing to show for his effort. Santiago's spirit is broken and he is unable even to pray. This is a heartbreaking view of Christ. The other metaphor that caught hold in my brain was the idea of the fish representing Heaven (the Kingdom of God). Santiago catches a fish of great value (pearl of great price), but is unable to hold onto it. In the end the Kingdom of God, which Santiago has beaten his body into submission in order to obtain, is worthless. Overall "The Old Man and the Sea" paints a very grim picture of Hemingway's spiritual outlook. The last three nights I’ve been rereading “The Old Man and the Sea” before bed; I’d been meaning to for a while. Last night as I was reading the last third my mind kept going to the thoughts in your post. I have no doubt that to some extent Hemingway meant for Santiago to be a Christ type, regardless of what he said.

What struck me as I was turning the last page of the book was what this said about Hemingway’s view of Christ: Christ is a failure. Santiago, through a mixture of pride and desperation, goes too far and suffers three days in the ocean. Through a long, painful ordeal he captures the fish, which represents to Santiago salvation from hunger and want. However, Santiago fails to bring salvation back to the land of the living. He returns to where he came from, blooded and broken, with nothing to show for his effort. Santiago’s spirit is broken and he is unable even to pray. This is a heartbreaking view of Christ.

The other metaphor that caught hold in my brain was the idea of the fish representing Heaven (the Kingdom of God). Santiago catches a fish of great value (pearl of great price), but is unable to hold onto it. In the end the Kingdom of God, which Santiago has beaten his body into submission in order to obtain, is worthless.

Overall “The Old Man and the Sea” paints a very grim picture of Hemingway’s spiritual outlook.

]]> By: BJ Worth http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-old-man-and-the-sea-papas-cruciform-writing/comment-page-1#comment-3850 BJ Worth Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:35:16 +0000 http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=762#comment-3850 I could matrix the story of Christ from a Rilo Kiley song, doesn't mean they intended it to be there. Authors write with intended imagery all the time. Readers see what they want to see in stories all the time. Which is it in this case? Can't know. We can't be in Hemingway's head and know what he intended. The best we got is what he tells us was going on in his head and even then, he could be lying to us (and for good reason; writing a story sometimes makes you a little bit too vulnerable. He might have been protecting himself and his beliefs.) What you can say for sure is that you see the imagery, the parallels. As for what Hemingway intended... To look at the parallels and say, "Ah, he had to have meant this as a picture of Christ," you'd have to assume his mind works the same way as yours; that you can see the end product and reverse engineer it back to his intentions. "No one knows a man but the spirit within the man" or something. I think that's from the Bible. I could matrix the story of Christ from a Rilo Kiley song, doesn’t mean they intended it to be there. Authors write with intended imagery all the time. Readers see what they want to see in stories all the time. Which is it in this case? Can’t know. We can’t be in Hemingway’s head and know what he intended. The best we got is what he tells us was going on in his head and even then, he could be lying to us (and for good reason; writing a story sometimes makes you a little bit too vulnerable. He might have been protecting himself and his beliefs.) What you can say for sure is that you see the imagery, the parallels. As for what Hemingway intended… To look at the parallels and say, “Ah, he had to have meant this as a picture of Christ,” you’d have to assume his mind works the same way as yours; that you can see the end product and reverse engineer it back to his intentions. “No one knows a man but the spirit within the man” or something. I think that’s from the Bible.

]]> By: Ken http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-old-man-and-the-sea-papas-cruciform-writing/comment-page-1#comment-3847 Ken Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:59:15 +0000 http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=762#comment-3847 Hemingway grew up in a very Christianized culture with a dominant strict Protestant mother. Although I fall a generation or two behind him, I can readily identify. My very formative years were in the late 50s and early 60s. In those days I too had a Reformed upbringing, but had no interest in 'following the Lord'. However, the culture was very Christianized, and even my most pagan peers knew basic Christian thought. So, to me it stands to reason that an accomplished author of the day would use concepts and terms that the culture could immediately identify with, whether he believed in them or not. Bottom line: I agree with you. I think Hemingway definately had Christian symbolism in mind. He wanted to connect with his public. Hemingway grew up in a very Christianized culture with a dominant strict Protestant mother. Although I fall a generation or two behind him, I can readily identify. My very formative years were in the late 50s and early 60s. In those days I too had a Reformed upbringing, but had no interest in ‘following the Lord’. However, the culture was very Christianized, and even my most pagan peers knew basic Christian thought. So, to me it stands to reason that an accomplished author of the day would use concepts and terms that the culture could immediately identify with, whether he believed in them or not. Bottom line: I agree with you. I think Hemingway definately had Christian symbolism in mind. He wanted to connect with his public.

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