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	<title>Comments on: The Aims of Jesus: Part 1- Event or Truth?</title>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-aims-of-jesus-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-4145</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=881#comment-4145</guid>
		<description>John:

Couldn&#039;t agree more.  The search for principles conceivably could become a matter of identifying a list we could put on a few sheets of paper and memorize.   We could just shelve the Bible once we isolate them all.

While it is not the last word on Biblical interpretation (or even the first), I would recommend Billy Collins&#039; wonderful poem &quot;Introduction to Poetry&quot; if you have not read it.  Seems to capture the &quot;wonder&quot; and humility with which we ought to approach scripture and with which we ought to return again and again. 

Introduction to Poetry

I ask them to take a poem
and hold it up to the light
like a color slide

or press an ear against its hive.

I say drop a mouse into a poem
and watch him probe his way out,

or walk inside the poem&#039;s room
and feel the walls for a light switch.

I want them to waterski
across the surface of a poem
waving at the author&#039;s name on the shore.

But all they want to do
is tie the poem to a chair with rope
and torture a confession out of it.

They begin beating it with a hose
to find out what it really means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John:</p>
<p>Couldn&#8217;t agree more.  The search for principles conceivably could become a matter of identifying a list we could put on a few sheets of paper and memorize.   We could just shelve the Bible once we isolate them all.</p>
<p>While it is not the last word on Biblical interpretation (or even the first), I would recommend Billy Collins&#8217; wonderful poem &#8220;Introduction to Poetry&#8221; if you have not read it.  Seems to capture the &#8220;wonder&#8221; and humility with which we ought to approach scripture and with which we ought to return again and again. </p>
<p>Introduction to Poetry</p>
<p>I ask them to take a poem<br />
and hold it up to the light<br />
like a color slide</p>
<p>or press an ear against its hive.</p>
<p>I say drop a mouse into a poem<br />
and watch him probe his way out,</p>
<p>or walk inside the poem&#8217;s room<br />
and feel the walls for a light switch.</p>
<p>I want them to waterski<br />
across the surface of a poem<br />
waving at the author&#8217;s name on the shore.</p>
<p>But all they want to do<br />
is tie the poem to a chair with rope<br />
and torture a confession out of it.</p>
<p>They begin beating it with a hose<br />
to find out what it really means.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Rayburn</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-aims-of-jesus-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-4140</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Rayburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=881#comment-4140</guid>
		<description>Wow.  A Pastor who actually listens without being defensive and abrasive.    

My respect for you, John,  (which was already high) just gonged the bell at the top of the Respect Meter.  Your flock is blessed.

&lt;i&gt;...&quot;the incredibly self-centered, self-absorbed Christianity of our day.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Amen.  

Narcissism comes with a force-shield that repels correction.  Tell a narcissist that he&#039;s a narcissist, and that narcissism is obnoxious, and watch him react, &quot;Huh?  Yeah, yeah, that.  But about me...&quot;

Let&#039;s keep feeding Jesus to them.  There is no other hope.  

Thanks, John.  Your blog is always a thought-provoking blessing.

Terry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  A Pastor who actually listens without being defensive and abrasive.    </p>
<p>My respect for you, John,  (which was already high) just gonged the bell at the top of the Respect Meter.  Your flock is blessed.</p>
<p><i>&#8230;&#8221;the incredibly self-centered, self-absorbed Christianity of our day.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Amen.  </p>
<p>Narcissism comes with a force-shield that repels correction.  Tell a narcissist that he&#8217;s a narcissist, and that narcissism is obnoxious, and watch him react, &#8220;Huh?  Yeah, yeah, that.  But about me&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s keep feeding Jesus to them.  There is no other hope.  </p>
<p>Thanks, John.  Your blog is always a thought-provoking blessing.</p>
<p>Terry</p>
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		<title>By: John W Frye</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-aims-of-jesus-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-4139</link>
		<dc:creator>John W Frye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=881#comment-4139</guid>
		<description>Terry,
I do like your gentle push back. I agree with you and think that I was reacting more to the incredibly self-centered, self-absorbed Christianity of our day. You&#039;ve brought balance to my imbalance. Thanks so much.  I especially like this: &quot;What Luke wrote in the book bearing his name was what Jesus “BEGAN to do and to teach”, and the Book of Acts continues the narrative of what He IS doing in us and through us. It’s certainly not “all about US”, but it is a tale of Two Musketeers, Christ and us, joyful [hopefully] yokefellows for History and for Eternity.&quot;
John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry,<br />
I do like your gentle push back. I agree with you and think that I was reacting more to the incredibly self-centered, self-absorbed Christianity of our day. You&#8217;ve brought balance to my imbalance. Thanks so much.  I especially like this: &#8220;What Luke wrote in the book bearing his name was what Jesus “BEGAN to do and to teach”, and the Book of Acts continues the narrative of what He IS doing in us and through us. It’s certainly not “all about US”, but it is a tale of Two Musketeers, Christ and us, joyful [hopefully] yokefellows for History and for Eternity.&#8221;<br />
John</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Rayburn</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-aims-of-jesus-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-4138</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Rayburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=881#comment-4138</guid>
		<description>Hi John,
So true that the old old story is neglected too much in favor of the old old hair-splitting of abstract &quot;principles&quot;.  Still, the Gospel begins in Eternity before the foundation of the world.

The &quot;story&quot; expresses the &quot;principle&quot;.  And without the story the principle is deadening, much like the Letter without the Spirit kills.

Yet the story still has to be interpreted (i.e., understood), and it is subject to being easily MISunderstood.  

For example, the Word of Faith guy may teach that it&#039;s all about health and wealth (&quot;Didn&#039;t the Apostles have Judas watching the MONEY bag?  What do you fools think they had in that MONEY bag?  Huh?  Don&#039;t shout me down, now, just &#039;cause I&#039;m preachin&#039; good!&quot;)

The Galatianist preacher may teach that Grace isn&#039;t enough.  That God&#039;s angry with His children all the time because we&#039;re such screw-ups (&quot;You people better start getting serious with God!  I know I&#039;m preaching to the choir here, but if you aren&#039;t here for Sunday night and Wednesday night and Sunday School, and if you&#039;re not giving your 10% to God [read, MY &quot;ministry&quot;], you better know God is disappointed in you, just like I&#039;m disappointed in you, you sad-sack sacks of ...&quot;)

The poor Emergent teacher may ponder over the narrative and echo Pontius Pilate&#039;s famous question, thinking the proclamation of &quot;What is truth?&quot; is profound, instead of sad.

My point is that God starts with &quot;principle&quot;, moves into Historical Story [a redundancy, I know], and sheds light on the stories with principles, even while shedding light on the principles with stories.

John, reconsider the assertion &quot;Christianity is all about Christ.&quot;  Is that true, whether examined by story or principle?  I don&#039;t think so.  

Christ Himself has made it about Him AND us.

Yes, He is the Author and Finisher.  Yes, He is the Alpha and Omega.  All glory and credit should go to Him.  What do we have that we did not receive?

Yet He has chosen to call out a people for His name, and love them, and take them with Him on the Cross and in the tomb and risen with Him and seated with Him, as His &quot;friends&quot; and His &quot;bride&quot;.

What Luke wrote in the book bearing his name was what Jesus &quot;BEGAN to do and to teach&quot;, and the Book of Acts continues the narrative of what He IS doing in us and through us.  It&#039;s certainly not &quot;all about US&quot;, but it is a tale of Two Musketeers, Christ and us, joyful [hopefully] yokefellows for History and for Eternity.

Why is this even important?  

Because if we fall for the self-abasing mantra that it&#039;s &quot;all about Him&quot;, we fail to draw near to Him, to commune with Him, in the warm welcomed way He has designed.  

And we are prone to try to earn His love and favor by our performance, thinking we are always falling short -- which of course we are :) -- instead of accepting His awesome acceptance of us by Grace, declared righteous through His gift of His righteousness, indeed made new in our spirits, one with Him in spirit, loving Christ and hating sin in our [new] heart of hearts.

That&#039;s the Old, and New, story.

Blessings,
Terry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,<br />
So true that the old old story is neglected too much in favor of the old old hair-splitting of abstract &#8220;principles&#8221;.  Still, the Gospel begins in Eternity before the foundation of the world.</p>
<p>The &#8220;story&#8221; expresses the &#8220;principle&#8221;.  And without the story the principle is deadening, much like the Letter without the Spirit kills.</p>
<p>Yet the story still has to be interpreted (i.e., understood), and it is subject to being easily MISunderstood.  </p>
<p>For example, the Word of Faith guy may teach that it&#8217;s all about health and wealth (&#8220;Didn&#8217;t the Apostles have Judas watching the MONEY bag?  What do you fools think they had in that MONEY bag?  Huh?  Don&#8217;t shout me down, now, just &#8217;cause I&#8217;m preachin&#8217; good!&#8221;)</p>
<p>The Galatianist preacher may teach that Grace isn&#8217;t enough.  That God&#8217;s angry with His children all the time because we&#8217;re such screw-ups (&#8220;You people better start getting serious with God!  I know I&#8217;m preaching to the choir here, but if you aren&#8217;t here for Sunday night and Wednesday night and Sunday School, and if you&#8217;re not giving your 10% to God [read, MY "ministry"], you better know God is disappointed in you, just like I&#8217;m disappointed in you, you sad-sack sacks of &#8230;&#8221;)</p>
<p>The poor Emergent teacher may ponder over the narrative and echo Pontius Pilate&#8217;s famous question, thinking the proclamation of &#8220;What is truth?&#8221; is profound, instead of sad.</p>
<p>My point is that God starts with &#8220;principle&#8221;, moves into Historical Story [a redundancy, I know], and sheds light on the stories with principles, even while shedding light on the principles with stories.</p>
<p>John, reconsider the assertion &#8220;Christianity is all about Christ.&#8221;  Is that true, whether examined by story or principle?  I don&#8217;t think so.  </p>
<p>Christ Himself has made it about Him AND us.</p>
<p>Yes, He is the Author and Finisher.  Yes, He is the Alpha and Omega.  All glory and credit should go to Him.  What do we have that we did not receive?</p>
<p>Yet He has chosen to call out a people for His name, and love them, and take them with Him on the Cross and in the tomb and risen with Him and seated with Him, as His &#8220;friends&#8221; and His &#8220;bride&#8221;.</p>
<p>What Luke wrote in the book bearing his name was what Jesus &#8220;BEGAN to do and to teach&#8221;, and the Book of Acts continues the narrative of what He IS doing in us and through us.  It&#8217;s certainly not &#8220;all about US&#8221;, but it is a tale of Two Musketeers, Christ and us, joyful [hopefully] yokefellows for History and for Eternity.</p>
<p>Why is this even important?  </p>
<p>Because if we fall for the self-abasing mantra that it&#8217;s &#8220;all about Him&#8221;, we fail to draw near to Him, to commune with Him, in the warm welcomed way He has designed.  </p>
<p>And we are prone to try to earn His love and favor by our performance, thinking we are always falling short &#8212; which of course we are <img src='http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  &#8212; instead of accepting His awesome acceptance of us by Grace, declared righteous through His gift of His righteousness, indeed made new in our spirits, one with Him in spirit, loving Christ and hating sin in our [new] heart of hearts.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the Old, and New, story.</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Terry</p>
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		<title>By: John W Frye</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-aims-of-jesus-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-4136</link>
		<dc:creator>John W Frye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=881#comment-4136</guid>
		<description>Mich,
I agree with you. For some reason the evangelical world at the popular level and to a large degree at the pastoral level has stalled; as if theology petrified in the &#039;50s. Because for many inspiration and authority has been shifted to interpretations and systems and away from the sacred text itself, people think that what they hear and believe is equivalent to very Word of God. It is SO sad.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mich,<br />
I agree with you. For some reason the evangelical world at the popular level and to a large degree at the pastoral level has stalled; as if theology petrified in the &#8217;50s. Because for many inspiration and authority has been shifted to interpretations and systems and away from the sacred text itself, people think that what they hear and believe is equivalent to very Word of God. It is SO sad.<br />
Thanks for stopping by and commenting!</p>
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		<title>By: John W Frye</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-aims-of-jesus-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-4135</link>
		<dc:creator>John W Frye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=881#comment-4135</guid>
		<description>Marc,
Thanks for the shout out at *The Eagle and the Child* :-)
John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc,<br />
Thanks for the shout out at *The Eagle and the Child* <img src='http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
John</p>
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		<title>By: Mich</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-aims-of-jesus-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-4134</link>
		<dc:creator>Mich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=881#comment-4134</guid>
		<description>Tremendous post!
:-)

I agree with you 100 percent--so you&#039;re preaching to the Choir. But perhaps the larger question is why is all this tremendous scholarship--Meyer, Wright, Dunn, etc--treated as apostasy but the evangelical church?  If you go to evangelical churches it&#039;s as if the past 40 years of Biblical scholarship doesn&#039;t exist--it&#039;s all that liberal stuff!  One reason you have Christians flooding the Net is they get saved, go to Bible Study and find their questions are ignored or denounced and they are fed unsatisfactory answers.  They start their own search and discover these authors,  blogs websites such as yours and a whole new world opens up!  Their faith can be questioned, discussed, etc in an open adult way.  Please keep writing.

Amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tremendous post!<br />
 <img src='http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I agree with you 100 percent&#8211;so you&#8217;re preaching to the Choir. But perhaps the larger question is why is all this tremendous scholarship&#8211;Meyer, Wright, Dunn, etc&#8211;treated as apostasy but the evangelical church?  If you go to evangelical churches it&#8217;s as if the past 40 years of Biblical scholarship doesn&#8217;t exist&#8211;it&#8217;s all that liberal stuff!  One reason you have Christians flooding the Net is they get saved, go to Bible Study and find their questions are ignored or denounced and they are fed unsatisfactory answers.  They start their own search and discover these authors,  blogs websites such as yours and a whole new world opens up!  Their faith can be questioned, discussed, etc in an open adult way.  Please keep writing.</p>
<p>Amen.</p>
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		<title>By: forex robot</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-aims-of-jesus-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-4133</link>
		<dc:creator>forex robot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=881#comment-4133</guid>
		<description>great post as usual .. thanks  .. you just gave me a few more ideas to play with</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great post as usual .. thanks  .. you just gave me a few more ideas to play with</p>
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		<title>By: The Eagle &#38; Child: "A blogging tour de force!..." - Marc Vandersluys, The Eagle &#38; Child</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/the-aims-of-jesus-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-4132</link>
		<dc:creator>The Eagle &#38; Child: "A blogging tour de force!..." - Marc Vandersluys, The Eagle &#38; Child</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=881#comment-4132</guid>
		<description>[...] John Frye&#8217;s reflections arising out of his reading of The Aims of Jesus: Christians primarily encounter events in history [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] John Frye&#8217;s reflections arising out of his reading of The Aims of Jesus: Christians primarily encounter events in history [...]</p>
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