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	<title>Comments on: Styrofoam Theology: Part 1- Pastors and Organic Church</title>
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		<title>By: Revisiting The Chair O&#39; Great Authority</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-4514</link>
		<dc:creator>Revisiting The Chair O&#39; Great Authority</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-4514</guid>
		<description>[...] John Frye&#039;s posts on the role of Pastor have been one of the triggers for this post. Particularly the discussion between John and Alan Knox on John&#039;s first post of his series. John&#039;s latest posts seem quite [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] John Frye&#39;s posts on the role of Pastor have been one of the triggers for this post. Particularly the discussion between John and Alan Knox on John&#39;s first post of his series. John&#39;s latest posts seem quite [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sean+ Lotz</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-4112</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean+ Lotz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-4112</guid>
		<description>I am confused about what &quot;priesthood of all believers&quot; has to do with the topic. Priests are not &quot;pastors.&quot; The &quot;priesthood of all believers&quot; does not do away with pastor-ship. A priest is one who acts as an intermediary with God, offering sacrifices for somebody else. All Christians ultimately are supposed to be priests, interceding with God and sacrificing prayerfully. I believe our Christian priesthood is primarily for the non-Christians. (Hah! I also believe all humans ought to be priests for all non-human creation. And priests, per se, are the priests for the Christians.)

Priests are not,  in and of themselves, pastors or helpers or counselors or social workers or nice people. They are sacrificers. What has the priesthood of all believers got to do with abolishing the office of pastor?

-- Fr. Sean Lotz, priest and pastor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am confused about what &#8220;priesthood of all believers&#8221; has to do with the topic. Priests are not &#8220;pastors.&#8221; The &#8220;priesthood of all believers&#8221; does not do away with pastor-ship. A priest is one who acts as an intermediary with God, offering sacrifices for somebody else. All Christians ultimately are supposed to be priests, interceding with God and sacrificing prayerfully. I believe our Christian priesthood is primarily for the non-Christians. (Hah! I also believe all humans ought to be priests for all non-human creation. And priests, per se, are the priests for the Christians.)</p>
<p>Priests are not,  in and of themselves, pastors or helpers or counselors or social workers or nice people. They are sacrificers. What has the priesthood of all believers got to do with abolishing the office of pastor?</p>
<p>&#8211; Fr. Sean Lotz, priest and pastor</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Greene</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-4028</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis Greene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-4028</guid>
		<description>&quot;The priesthood of all believers means that we are all apostles and prophets and pastors and teachers and evangelists, blah, blah, blah. Jesus is the head.” So, the new thinking and writing goes.&quot;

Do you have quotes for that? Because I haven&#039;t seen anyone say anything like that. In fact, I have a problem with the idea of a unitary Pastor in the modern sense precisely because there are a variety of gifts. Not all are apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, etc...so why do we want to wrap that all up in one impossible job description? Yes, Jesus is the Good Pastor, our one teacher...so why arrogate his job to ourselves? 

Leadership is important, and is a gift given to some for the sake of the whole body. Teaching is important, and is a gift given to some for the sake of the whole body. Counseling is important, and is a gift given to some for the sake of the whole body. Why pile all these things and more onto one person&#039;s shoulders, denying the opportunity for all in the church to use their gifts, as well as letting them off the hook for their callings?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The priesthood of all believers means that we are all apostles and prophets and pastors and teachers and evangelists, blah, blah, blah. Jesus is the head.” So, the new thinking and writing goes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do you have quotes for that? Because I haven&#8217;t seen anyone say anything like that. In fact, I have a problem with the idea of a unitary Pastor in the modern sense precisely because there are a variety of gifts. Not all are apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, etc&#8230;so why do we want to wrap that all up in one impossible job description? Yes, Jesus is the Good Pastor, our one teacher&#8230;so why arrogate his job to ourselves? </p>
<p>Leadership is important, and is a gift given to some for the sake of the whole body. Teaching is important, and is a gift given to some for the sake of the whole body. Counseling is important, and is a gift given to some for the sake of the whole body. Why pile all these things and more onto one person&#8217;s shoulders, denying the opportunity for all in the church to use their gifts, as well as letting them off the hook for their callings?</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-4027</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 01:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-4027</guid>
		<description>John,

You said: (#14) &quot;I think we can agree that there are at least two categories within the NT church according to Paul—leaders and followers.&quot;  Actually, he describes in 1 Corinthians 12 this :&quot;27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.&quot;   And contextually, it is implied in that chapter and elsewhere that there are other gifts too.  
           The problem with the current  role of &quot;Pastor&quot;  in the modern protestant sense is that the person conferred with the title pastor (and that IS what we are discussing, not what a true &quot;pastor&quot; should be) is expected to be a teacher, and a prophet, and an administrator, and a miracle worker, and a counselor, and one who helps others.  We place in the current pastorship the expectation to do nearly everything for the church.  A pastor should be a shepherd: one who tends to the flock, keeping it from wandering away, helping it grow.  The best way to do that is to find and train others in their spiritual gifts.  

         The problem isn&#039;t with the pastor as the Bible describes it, it is with what we have made it.  The pastor should pastor, not everything else, and not working 90 hours a week to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>You said: (#14) &#8220;I think we can agree that there are at least two categories within the NT church according to Paul—leaders and followers.&#8221;  Actually, he describes in 1 Corinthians 12 this :&#8221;27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.&#8221;   And contextually, it is implied in that chapter and elsewhere that there are other gifts too.<br />
           The problem with the current  role of &#8220;Pastor&#8221;  in the modern protestant sense is that the person conferred with the title pastor (and that IS what we are discussing, not what a true &#8220;pastor&#8221; should be) is expected to be a teacher, and a prophet, and an administrator, and a miracle worker, and a counselor, and one who helps others.  We place in the current pastorship the expectation to do nearly everything for the church.  A pastor should be a shepherd: one who tends to the flock, keeping it from wandering away, helping it grow.  The best way to do that is to find and train others in their spiritual gifts.  </p>
<p>         The problem isn&#8217;t with the pastor as the Bible describes it, it is with what we have made it.  The pastor should pastor, not everything else, and not working 90 hours a week to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Of Pastors, Priesthood &#38; Power &#171; A Living Alternative Our Missional Pilgrimage</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-4021</link>
		<dc:creator>Of Pastors, Priesthood &#38; Power &#171; A Living Alternative Our Missional Pilgrimage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-4021</guid>
		<description>[...] lately around the topic of pastors, leadership and the priesthood of all believers (so far with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 &amp; Part 4).   John, himself a pastor, is down-right angry with some of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lately around the topic of pastors, leadership and the priesthood of all believers (so far with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 &amp; Part 4).   John, himself a pastor, is down-right angry with some of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Milton Stanley</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-4020</link>
		<dc:creator>Milton Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-4020</guid>
		<description>Yes, that&#039;s certainly true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that&#8217;s certainly true.</p>
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		<title>By: John W Frye</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-3999</link>
		<dc:creator>John W Frye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-3999</guid>
		<description>Milton (#19),
Well, of course, there was not a solitary pastor &quot;in the modern sense.&quot; But if unfolding 1st and 2nd century church polity points in any direction, it is toward the solitary pastor serving the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Milton (#19),<br />
Well, of course, there was not a solitary pastor &#8220;in the modern sense.&#8221; But if unfolding 1st and 2nd century church polity points in any direction, it is toward the solitary pastor serving the church.</p>
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		<title>By: Milton Stanley</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-3998</link>
		<dc:creator>Milton Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-3998</guid>
		<description>John: &quot;If Ephesus was populated by numerous “house churches,” which is probably true, you cannot tell me in fact that each house church had multiple elders/pastors.&quot;

Milton: True enough, John, and you cannot tell me in fact that any single house church had a solitary pastor in the modern sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: &#8220;If Ephesus was populated by numerous “house churches,” which is probably true, you cannot tell me in fact that each house church had multiple elders/pastors.&#8221;</p>
<p>Milton: True enough, John, and you cannot tell me in fact that any single house church had a solitary pastor in the modern sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention jesus the radical pastor &#124; exploring the life and mission of the 1st century Jesus for our 21st century » Blog Archive » Styrofoam Theology: Pastors and Organic Church -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-3997</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention jesus the radical pastor &#124; exploring the life and mission of the 1st century Jesus for our 21st century » Blog Archive » Styrofoam Theology: Pastors and Organic Church -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-3997</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Michael Taljaard and dbgooglereader. dbgooglereader said: Styrofoam Theology: Pastors and Organic Church: There is a kind of hocus-pocus going on in current evangelical .. http://bit.ly/sJrWS [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Michael Taljaard and dbgooglereader. dbgooglereader said: Styrofoam Theology: Pastors and Organic Church: There is a kind of hocus-pocus going on in current evangelical .. <a href="http://bit.ly/sJrWS" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/sJrWS</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Foisy</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/pastors-and-the-new-organic-gospel-magic/comment-page-1#comment-3996</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Foisy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/?p=819#comment-3996</guid>
		<description>John, 

Thanks for laying out a pastoral theology. In &quot;Pagan Christianity&quot; the idea is established that the term &quot;pastor&quot; is an obscure word used only one time to refer to a leadership position and is without context. i had never thought about it before and it did shake me a bit. i wondered if we used the term simply because it was so vague. Yet your work &quot;Jesus the Pastor&quot; and this clarification help put the term in its larger perspective. This was helpful because i truly did wonder what the role of a &quot;pastor&quot; was and if it was every really biblically defined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, </p>
<p>Thanks for laying out a pastoral theology. In &#8220;Pagan Christianity&#8221; the idea is established that the term &#8220;pastor&#8221; is an obscure word used only one time to refer to a leadership position and is without context. i had never thought about it before and it did shake me a bit. i wondered if we used the term simply because it was so vague. Yet your work &#8220;Jesus the Pastor&#8221; and this clarification help put the term in its larger perspective. This was helpful because i truly did wonder what the role of a &#8220;pastor&#8221; was and if it was every really biblically defined.</p>
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