11 Responses to “JESUS EMERGES”

1. on 11 Jul 2008 at 7:56 am1Mark R

   Yeah – does sound VERY familiar.

   But I know,- I was blind but now I see!!!

2. on 11 Jul 2008 at 10:50 am2John

   Mark R,
   Vanity of vanities…alas, there is nothing new under the sun.
   Bless your opened eyes!

3. on 12 Jul 2008 at 12:49 pm3Fred

   “the emerging movement he led out of Nazareth.” That’s the problem! Nothing good can come out of Nazareth. Can it?

4. on 12 Jul 2008 at 1:09 pm4John Frye

   Fred,
   We do wonder about that, or some wonder negatively apparently and criticize up the whaazoo…

5. on 13 Jul 2008 at 11:02 am5preacherman

   Wonderful post radical pastor!
   I have a favor and don’t want to sound rude or change the subject. I ask this in all humbleness and love as a brother who needs prayers. This past week I spend 2 days in ICU with pneamonia. The doctor also found that I 25% and ran test GEd and other test as well. When the GED they found that my esophogus was the worst that he had seen in years. I was will also more test because it could lead to leads to cancer. Could you and church pray for me. I would appreciate it brother. Thanks.
   In Him,
   Kinney Mabry

6. on 14 Jul 2008 at 2:02 am6Mark R

   You got my prayers Preacherman!!!

7. on 16 Jul 2008 at 5:41 am7John Frye

   Preacherman,
   I’ve been on vacation to Tennessee, but I saw your prayer request before I left and you have been in my prayers. God bless you thoroughly today!
   John

8. on 16 Jul 2008 at 11:17 pm8Karen

   John:
   I’m in town. Got here this evening. Doing some recording at Z-town. Hope we can find time for coffee. 541.379.8572

9. on 18 Jul 2008 at 11:17 am9Joel Shaffer

   So that I am not misreading what you are trying to convey, can I ask you a few questions about your poem? By the way its pretty good poetry.

   You believe that most of the criticism against the emergent movement comes from those who hold to a Calvinist worldview (that can’t get out of their Reformed box), who also happen to mistreat widows (I am guessing widows stands for all the poor in general), and embrace a trendy view of the cross.

   If this is what you are trying to convey, I will be the first to tell you that many of my Reformed friends as well as myself probably are guilty of viewing the grand narrative too much through a Calvinist lens, instead of letting the narrative of scripture unfold on its own terms. From what I see, certain passages of scripture are quite messy and there are times that I have to live with tension or uphold the view which seems to have a few better reasons than other views (I don’t know if I am making much sense).

   On your second point (widows) maybe I am misreading you, but it seems as if you are accusing those from a Reformed view of mistreating and not caring for the poor (widows)? If this is what you are conveying, I feel that it is a low blow. Almost all of my (young, restless, reformed) friends have a huge heart for social justice. The Tim Kellers and John Pipers have modeled this to them and most of them seek ways to love the poor just like most emergents that I have come across. This is something that the emergents and young reformed types have in common!

   I am perplexed on the last point. And I have never been good at interpreting poetry so that is why I am asking these questions, so bear with me here. Are you pointing to the Calvinist way of the cross, whether we are talking about views of atonement or living out what it means to follow the way of the cross is trendy? From my vantage point it seems as if the Calvinist view would be the least trendy unless they are following a Calvinist celebrity of some sort.

   The question that I often have is can the emergents and non-emergents (in this case the young, restless, reformed types) actually have the needed conversation without talking past each other and misrepresenting each other’s views by creating straw man arguments? Can we even look at the plank in our eyes before we remove the speck in each other’s eyes? I long for my reformed friends to stop following the way of a D.A. Carson who really only had a conversation with himself about the emergent church in his book. At the same time, I long for my emergent friends to critique a fellow emergent that has capitulated himself/herself to the idol of post-modernity with the same passion that they critique their fundamental, evangelical, reformed brother that has often capitulated itself to the idol of modernity.

   This is enough questions and reflections for now. I look forward to your response.

10. on 18 Jul 2008 at 3:57 pm10John

    Joel Shaffer,
    I deeply appreciate your thoughtful and thorough musings over this poem. In doing so, you have surfaced ideas that I did not have in mind, but I see them now through your eyes so to speak.

    I do get irritated at times by the broad stroke criticisms of all things emergent/emerging from the Calvinist (Piperite) wing of evangelicalism.

    As far as the Reformed wing currently mistreating widows (as a representative of all “poor”), I didn’t have such an idea in mind. That is where the poem moves in and out of Jesus’ day and our own. And, lastly, I have no quarrel with a Reformed view of the cross unless it is reduced to *only* the substitutionary atonement theory. I like Scot McKnight’s more symphonic approach in *A Community Called Atonement.*

    I will say that your comments affirm the purpose of the poem and that is: to get us all thinking about how our lives and ministries reflect Jesus and the Jesus Way. The question behind the poem is this: Would the Jesus of the Gospels himself survive the right-wing evangelical criticism aimed at prominent emerging leaders today?

    Thanks, Joel, for taking the time to comment.
    Blessings!
    John

11. on 18 Jul 2008 at 4:00 pm11John

    Karen #8,
    It was so much fun for Julie and me to have breakfast with you this morning. We hope all things go well with your work at Z-land.
    Thanks for the book. Julie is already half way through it!

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