Comments on: Jesus and Expectations: Part 7- Women

By: Jesus the Radical Pastor | Exploring the Life and Mission of the … - halloweencarvingstencil

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:17:36 +0000

[...] We have so reduced the Gospel in USAmerican evangelism that it’s lucky that even Jesus is mentioned in it. It’s all about us and how to get to heaven from Grand Rapids, MI. But the point is that the objecting disciple, Judas , …Next Page [...]

By: Don

Don — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:41:10 +0000

John,
Likewise, thank you for your responses and clarification of your original post. One irony I noted is that the NIV was initially welcomed by conservatives as a response to the RSV; and now, the ESV, as a more conservative rewrite of the RSV, appears to be supplanting the NIV among conservatives!
Finally, a quick review of history of contemporary bible versions as documented by Michael Marlowe on http://www.bible-researcher.com illustrated to me that liberals and conservatives have been in a cat-and-mouse game for over half a century, i.e., if we are to take Marlowe’s accounts at face value, it would seem that “there is nothing new under the sun” in terms of bible translation motives! Perhaps sad, but not the least bit surprising given human nature.

By: John

John — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:41:22 +0000

Preacherman,
Thanks, again, for your very encouraging comment. I pray we will continue to see our sisters in Christ take their rightful and equal place with us as leaders in and to the church. God bless you!

By: preacherman

preacherman — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:00:33 +0000

John,
I believe this is one of the best posts that I have heard on Jesus and the bibles view of women. I believe every believer needs to rethink this issue and treat women as a vital part of the Kingdom of God. We need to allow women to use the spiritual gifts that God has given them and not hinder their talents and abilities. We need to see them as an important part of the body of Christ. May those who hinder and bind womens roles in ministry set them free! May those who see them as second class Christians be opened to the true reality of what they truly are in Christ! Thank you brother for this post and challenging us. God bless all you do to make a Kingdom difference. God bless you!!

By: John W Frye

John W Frye — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:04:29 +0000

Don (#6-#7),
I think I was imprecise. I don’t think that either the TNIV or the ESV were produced with the “role of women” issue in mind as a driving reason for their existence. It is just that the evangelical divide over this issue has resulted in preferred English translations that “fit” their position. Thanks for your interactions.

By: The Eagle & Child: "A blogging tour de force!..." - Marc Vandersluys, The Eagle & Child

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 03:56:28 +0000

[...] Frye, in his post “Jesus and Expectations: Part 7- Women“: Whatever the debate is today, it is undeniable that Jesus had very liberal views and [...]

By: Don

Don — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:13:01 +0000

p.s. I suppose the gender role issue (specifically within the church) could be easily implied by the gender translation issue, but I didn’t read that far into it at the time I was researching bibles.

By: Don

Don — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:55:55 +0000

I am aware of the gender issue with the translations that had been raised by James Dobson, but I was not aware that complementarianism/egalitarianism was the primary thrust that brought the ESV into existence. I thought it was simply concern over regendered language. Additionally, I had thought that the primary figures behind it also desired a very literal translation that would be more readable than, say, the NASB. As I had been out of the habit of regular bible reading up until a couple of years ago, I desired a fresh read after having relied on the NIV for the first 20 years of my Christian life, and the ESV is in fact the version that I chose. To be honest, I have to say that I love it, as it has delivered on my desire for freshness in reading. I would far rather stick as closely as possible to the original languages than go in the other direction, such as to The Message. My pastor at first wasn’t keen on the idea of a literal translation, preferring the NIV, but now finds the ESV easier to teach from.
To be honest, I’m fascinated by bible versions and their origins, and I did learn a lot in my research a couple of years ago. Do you know of other contemporary translations that may have been agenda driven, or were you thinking primarily of the ESV? It would not surprise me if, through the centuries, many more versions came from an action-reaction dynamic.

By: John W Frye

John W Frye — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 13:21:30 +0000

Don (#4),
Of course you are aware of the bruhaha launched by the complementarian crowd when the NIV-UK came out as “gender inclusive” followed by the TNIV. These versions were the slippery slope toward undiluted, egalitarian heresy according to their detractors. Then, the complementarian crowd got behind and endorses big time the English Standard Version that preserves, for them, the correct view of headship, hierarchy, traditional views of family and women in ministry. We live in a day when Bible translations are agenda driven. Isn’t that sad?

By: Don

Don — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 02:47:29 +0000

Regarding this statement: “We live in amazing times when entire versions of the Bible are created to promote and preserve the views on this hot-button issue (the complementarian and egalitarian views).”
Can you elaborate on this a little? Which specific versions were created to favor which specific views? I’m just trying to get some kind of idea of the landscape of bible versions – wouldn’t one think the translators would simply try to represent the original languages or thoughts as accurately as possible without injecting their own biases? Thanks John.