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	<title>Comments on: Imitating Jesus: Part 7- Apartheid Is (Un)&#8217;Biblical&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/imitating-jesus-part-6-apartheid-is-unbiblical</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Steve Hayes</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/imitating-jesus-part-6-apartheid-is-unbiblical#comment-1973</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am a bear of very little brain, I think.
I couldn't follow Burridge's argument at all. 

The scriptural justification of apartheid was very simple: it was based on the basic principle, assumption, or presupposition that the community of race trumps the community of grace. 

Those who like their theology "nuanced" will probably say that that's simplistic, but that's the way I see it anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a bear of very little brain, I think.<br />
I couldn&#8217;t follow Burridge&#8217;s argument at all. </p>
<p>The scriptural justification of apartheid was very simple: it was based on the basic principle, assumption, or presupposition that the community of race trumps the community of grace. </p>
<p>Those who like their theology &#8220;nuanced&#8221; will probably say that that&#8217;s simplistic, but that&#8217;s the way I see it anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/imitating-jesus-part-6-apartheid-is-unbiblical#comment-1972</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/imitating-jesus-part-6-apartheid-is-unbiblical#comment-1972</guid>
		<description>Attie,
I was so eager to hear from you on this last post regarding apartheid. Thank you for returning and commenting. Burridge does speak of the influence of DJ Bosch and Desmond Tutu (and many others). Your second observation regarding "church and state" is both telling and informative. Burridge does not write about the Broederbond, but that kind of one-sided concentration of power is devastating, as you attest. 

When one group (the Boers) believe that they are "God's people" released from slavery (fleeing the Netherlands) and coming to the "promise land" (South Africa), then, of course, the native peoples (Zulus, etc.) will be viewed as the "wicked Canaanites." You have volitile exclusion from the beginning. This was (and is) a horrible perversion of the Exodus story. This perverted Exodus story was also played out by those fleeing England to America and led to the whole-sale slaughter of Native Americans who were viewed as the "pagan" obstacles to developing the "new England."

Do you have access to Burridge's book?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attie,<br />
I was so eager to hear from you on this last post regarding apartheid. Thank you for returning and commenting. Burridge does speak of the influence of DJ Bosch and Desmond Tutu (and many others). Your second observation regarding &#8220;church and state&#8221; is both telling and informative. Burridge does not write about the Broederbond, but that kind of one-sided concentration of power is devastating, as you attest. </p>
<p>When one group (the Boers) believe that they are &#8220;God&#8217;s people&#8221; released from slavery (fleeing the Netherlands) and coming to the &#8220;promise land&#8221; (South Africa), then, of course, the native peoples (Zulus, etc.) will be viewed as the &#8220;wicked Canaanites.&#8221; You have volitile exclusion from the beginning. This was (and is) a horrible perversion of the Exodus story. This perverted Exodus story was also played out by those fleeing England to America and led to the whole-sale slaughter of Native Americans who were viewed as the &#8220;pagan&#8221; obstacles to developing the &#8220;new England.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do you have access to Burridge&#8217;s book?</p>
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		<title>By: Attie</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/imitating-jesus-part-6-apartheid-is-unbiblical#comment-1969</link>
		<dc:creator>Attie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/imitating-jesus-part-6-apartheid-is-unbiblical#comment-1969</guid>
		<description>Apartheid is unblibical. Today almost everybody in South Africa agrees with that statement. It is imprtant though to mention that South Africa had its prophets in those days. Prof. WD Jonker In the last days of his career he was Dean of the Theological Faculty of the University of Stellenbosch. In the earlier years it was his criticism agaisnt apartheid that forced him to the netherlands where he taught at Kampen University. DJ Bosch is of course the other well known theological opposer of apartheid. 
Lessons learned: First of all, listen to your friends for moral support, but listen to your enemies when you are in search of wisdom. If the church listened to WD Jonker and DJ Bosch in the seventies, I believe things could have been different. 
Second: Keep the distance between church and state. At a critical point in our history Koot Vorster was the moedrator of the Dutch Reformed Church and his brother was the Prime Minister. Both of them were members of the secret organization the Broederbond. The Broederbond had one purpose and that was the protection and advantaging the course of the Afrikaner at all cost. Many of us are of the opinion that the church and state were rather goeverned by the Broederbond in those days. 
Third: Make a habit of checking your priorities. You cannot follow Jesus when you are listening to others. An example to us is Desmond Tutu. Number one enemy in South Africa during the apartheid regime. Today he is in the same manner a critique of the ANC Government and not a member of the ANC. though not perfect, God is the number one priority in the life of Desmond Tutu. At this moment he is in Kenia trying to resolve the conflict and bring some peace in that country. 
My thoughts on this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apartheid is unblibical. Today almost everybody in South Africa agrees with that statement. It is imprtant though to mention that South Africa had its prophets in those days. Prof. WD Jonker In the last days of his career he was Dean of the Theological Faculty of the University of Stellenbosch. In the earlier years it was his criticism agaisnt apartheid that forced him to the netherlands where he taught at Kampen University. DJ Bosch is of course the other well known theological opposer of apartheid.<br />
Lessons learned: First of all, listen to your friends for moral support, but listen to your enemies when you are in search of wisdom. If the church listened to WD Jonker and DJ Bosch in the seventies, I believe things could have been different.<br />
Second: Keep the distance between church and state. At a critical point in our history Koot Vorster was the moedrator of the Dutch Reformed Church and his brother was the Prime Minister. Both of them were members of the secret organization the Broederbond. The Broederbond had one purpose and that was the protection and advantaging the course of the Afrikaner at all cost. Many of us are of the opinion that the church and state were rather goeverned by the Broederbond in those days.<br />
Third: Make a habit of checking your priorities. You cannot follow Jesus when you are listening to others. An example to us is Desmond Tutu. Number one enemy in South Africa during the apartheid regime. Today he is in the same manner a critique of the ANC Government and not a member of the ANC. though not perfect, God is the number one priority in the life of Desmond Tutu. At this moment he is in Kenia trying to resolve the conflict and bring some peace in that country.<br />
My thoughts on this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: John W Frye</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/imitating-jesus-part-6-apartheid-is-unbiblical#comment-1956</link>
		<dc:creator>John W Frye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ted,
I learned a kind of hermeneutics-in-isolation where the "exegete" comes up with meaning of the text all by him- or herself. I think this is so dangerous because marginalized voices are seldom heard in this kind of biblical study. We need interpretive communities to iron out the horrendous distortions in USAmerican evangelicalism---focused on abortion and homosexuality to the neglect of the evil of war, unfetted consumerism in the church, world hunger, and an idiotic fascination with "end times."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted,<br />
I learned a kind of hermeneutics-in-isolation where the &#8220;exegete&#8221; comes up with meaning of the text all by him- or herself. I think this is so dangerous because marginalized voices are seldom heard in this kind of biblical study. We need interpretive communities to iron out the horrendous distortions in USAmerican evangelicalism&#8212;focused on abortion and homosexuality to the neglect of the evil of war, unfetted consumerism in the church, world hunger, and an idiotic fascination with &#8220;end times.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ted M. Gossard</title>
		<link>http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/imitating-jesus-part-6-apartheid-is-unbiblical#comment-1955</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted M. Gossard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/imitating-jesus-part-6-apartheid-is-unbiblical#comment-1955</guid>
		<description>Thought provoking. I see some of these dynamics played out on Scot's blog: Jesus Creed. And especially the dynamic of balancing perspectives from equally committed Christians.

This also reminds me of William Webb's "Slaves, Women and Homosexuals", in which he seeks to demonstrate, and I think does so clearly, the importance of seeing things in cultural context to its day, before we seek to discern its meaning for the present time and in light of the kingdom of God come in Jesus.

Good education for us. Thanks, John.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought provoking. I see some of these dynamics played out on Scot&#8217;s blog: Jesus Creed. And especially the dynamic of balancing perspectives from equally committed Christians.</p>
<p>This also reminds me of William Webb&#8217;s &#8220;Slaves, Women and Homosexuals&#8221;, in which he seeks to demonstrate, and I think does so clearly, the importance of seeing things in cultural context to its day, before we seek to discern its meaning for the present time and in light of the kingdom of God come in Jesus.</p>
<p>Good education for us. Thanks, John.</p>
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